Never before in its existance has Showtime been such an important figure in the world of television. Achieving the unthinkable, it's managed to surpass HBO and move to the forefront of high-level scripted programming.
No show is more responsible for Showtime's success than Weeds. During a dark period in the net's history, when fans were riled over the cancellation of Dead Like Me and people were going head over heels for HBO's powerhouse lineup, a little show starring Mary-Louise Parker debuted as the top rated Showtime program in its first ten-episode season.
Far better than The L-Word, Queer as Folk or any of Showtime's previous attempts at original programming, Weeds was a dark comedy unlike any other on television. Taking place in an affluent suburb by the name of Agrestic, the show followed Mary-Louise as Nancy Botwin, a recently widowed single mother who began to sell weed to support her family.
Since its inception, the show has managed to touch on an amazing array of themes ranging from the hypocrisy of suburbia to the morality of parenting to the world of drug dealing.
I had the opportunity to sit down with one of the most fascinating minds in television, Roberto Benabib, executive producer and writer for Weeds.
Nadum: Weeds is categorized as a comedy but do you contribute the stylistic differences to it being being a dark comedy, a satire, a drama?
RB: We see ourselves as free to roam from comedy to drama kind of at will and I think part of that is being on Showtime, part of that is being a single camera show and part of that is having amazing actors who have really finely tuned dramatic chops as well as comedic chops. We try to base our stories on the truth and what we think is real and it leads us into comedy and drama constantly kind of the way life does.
Also, we’re not afraid – we keep saying that some shows that get labeled “Dramadies” are afraid to make it too dramatic because they might not be able to bring it all the way back to the comedy again. We don’t mind going from pure drama and then going straight for pure comedy. I think that’s what differentiates Weeds from a lot of other shows -- the extremes on each end of that rainbow. We'll have scenes that are just as dramatic as anything you’ll find on television and scenes that are just as broadly comical as anything you’ll find on Arrested or 30 Rock or any of the other shows.
Nadum: And you've got Doug who’s one of the funniest characters on television.
Nadum: Speaking to that duality, Nancy, despite being one of the most likable – if not the most likable character on television, she’s obviously a very flawed character. She’s got good intentions, but as a mother…
RB: I think that’s why we like her. I think we recognized that we’re all flawed and that everything is compromised to a point. When you see Nancy compromising and when you see her try to do her best and fail it makes her relatable.
It’s when people are portrayed as too good to be true or too evil to be true, that’s when the audience distances themselves. More to the point the relatability Nancy has when she fails audiences find refreshing, engaging and make her sympathetic.
Nadum: Would you agree that she has a manipulative streak?
RB: Oh I think she’s manipulative, I think she's caring, I think she’s selfish, I think she’s giving. She's different things in different situations. Again, Nancy becomes relatable when we find ourselves as selfish and petty at moment and then giving and charitable and sweet at another
Nadum: How much has having Mary-Louise Parker allowed you guys to write towards that end -- such a complex character.
RB: She’s given us free reign. She is a major dramatic actress, used to be in theater, on Broadway, off Broadway... She's used to complex characters which gives us complete leeway to really take that character into some pretty dark places.
Nadum: And very talented at doing so
RB: Amazingly talented. We call her 'gear change'. She can go through five different emotions almost simultaneously and without words. We’re very proud that some of her finest moments in the show are moments when she’s just physically reacting to something without saying anything
Nadum: She has that unique quality. A demeanor, or disposition about her. Is that something that she carries in from real life?
RB: No, but it looks easy because its so natural but she works incredibly hard on the material in order to get that kind of effect. She’s constantly going over her lines and breaking down the script and figuring out where her character is emotionally any given time.
Nadum: Weeds has some similarities in dramatic content with Desperate Housewives, but you guys go so far above and beyond -- the way you’ve managed to avoid manufacturing drama or falling into the trap of becoming a soap opera.
RB: They’re almost high camp. That’s almost like a twisted children’s story. It’s a very different approach stylistically and in terms of content to the subject of suburbia. We have a drug dealer, she happens to live in the suburbs and we come against that a lot but it’s a show about a drugs and drug dealing and Desperate Housewives is a show about suburban mothers.
Nadum: With the U-Turn storyline. Did you feel like that worked, that you weren’t going too overboard into that Desperate Housewives terrain?
RB: U-turn really was a chance for us to say that her career has consequences. She is a real drug dealer and is in real jeopardy and in real danger and not just coming across lovable familial figures like Conrad and Heylia. but scary characters like U-turn.
I think part of the reason a lot of people may have had trouble with the U-Turn storyline is that they didn’t want to see Nancy in that much jeopardy and that we take as a compliment. It’s like 'Wow that’s very cool.' We like the fact that you've taken our character into heart that you’re really uncomfortable and not digging it when she’s in major jeopardy.
Nadum: How in tune are you guys with the suburban drug scene, the U-Turns, etc? Is there anyone in the writing room with experience or is it generally based on research?
RB: As the show changes from season to season -- season one was just Nancy dealing dime bags to suburbanites -- that was a pretty easy thing because some of us have bought dime bags as suburbanites.
But season two she started growing and that was something we didn’t know about so we did an enormous amount of research. Season three, in terms of the underworld of drug dealing we did even more research. Now Nancy has started up distribution and you'll see that will sort of take us through the end of the season so we had people come in and talk to us anonymously. So each season -- and season four will be no different -- we explore a new aspect of the marijuana trade.
I would say that in the end its probably more an exhaustive amount of research going into all this into the drug angle of the show than actual experience
Nadum: You mentioned season four. All indications are you will be back for a fourth season?
RB: Oh yes absolutely
Nadum: Did you guys already get renewed?
RB: Not officially but it’s pretty much a sure bet.
Nadum: That's great news..
Nadum: One part that’s entered in with both summer school and Mary Kate's character is the religion aspect and some of the hypocrisy involved there. Is that more of a reflection of the suburban image that you’re trying to capture or just part of the story?
RB: There are mega churches and these religious communicates that are becoming more and more a part of suburbia and we just felt it was an angle that hadn’t been dealt with. Being on Showtime, we could deal with it more satirically and had more freedom than we could possibly have on a network, so we thought we should go for it and reflect what’s going on in a lot of middle America.
Nadum: So how much are you loving working for Showtime?
RB: Oh its amazing. One of the great things about Showtime -- and possibly even unlike HBO -- we have political freedom, which is something – I'm not saying they have it on HBO -- but I don’t necessarily know that they do either.
Bob Greenblatt has given us the freedom to say whatever we want, to be political, to get in there and make some pretty daring and pretty controversial choices when we tell stories. And that’s been amazing, the ability to write and not have anyone say no you can’t do this or that.
Nadum: A lot different than Ally McBeal?
RB: [Laughs]. Very different. Although that was fun too.
Nadum: After working for Showtime, you think you could go back to network television?
RB: I'm so spoiled and if you talk to any of the other writers on the show they’ll tell you the same thing. I understand now why the David Milch’s and the David Simon's stay with HBO. There might be a bigger audience and as consequence a lot more money on network TV -- and I'm not saying I would turn something down -- but at the same time I have to say it would be not be my first choice.
Nadum: And you guys are doing -- I've had this argument over and over. You guys are producing a much better product than the film industry.
RB: I think again it’s the freedom to do something truly creative. Films cost so much money and have to appeal to so many different people that they’re so watered down by the time we see them that you’re not getting anything from them. I mean I think its almost as important when people hate something like as much as they love something. Films -- you look at them and you don’t even want to see them. And if you do see them you forget you saw them because they're just not stirring any kind of passion; positive or negative and it's just really sad.
I think that’s born out in the fact that TV shows are outselling films on DVD. People are going out and wanting to buy shows on DVD and forsaking wanting to buy movies. I think the TV sector of the DVD business is keeping it afloat.
Nadum: The TV vs. Film DVD figures are stunning. Somewhat on the topic, do you guys have the On Demand numbers yet?
RB: No, I don’t know about those. I know they’re high, because pretty much everyone I talk to watches it On Demand.
What they like to do, they’re so used to doing it on DVD is that they like to let them pile up so you can just resolve the cliffhangers right away. The people I know just who came to the show late, literally devoured the DVDs. People really like that momentum.
We look at the show like a novel with chapters. Each season is a new novel and each episode is a chapter. People are starting to like these kind of shows -- not just Weeds -- and starting to treat the DVDs as you would read a novel. Three chapters tonight, another two tomorrow.
Nadum: The David Simon Formula.
RB: Yeah, exactly. It's no wonder those guys are all novelists and so well suited to the medium.
Nadum: Were you guys inspired at all by what he did with The Wire.
Yeah, we’re inspired by what he did on The Wire, we’re inspired The Shield. We’re inspired by good television and not only inspired but challenged.
When you see really great work like The Wire it challenges you to do great work and not take shortcuts so as to avoid breaking a story that’s been done a million times. Let’s find a new way to tell that story, let’s surprise the audience, let’s do something different. Good television seems to inspire us. There are a handful of shows that we all love out there, let’s try and be as good as them.
Nadum: It’s almost become an evolution that started with Oz, The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, where so many writers and artists are taking their work to a completely different level and we keep getting better and better shows.
RB: It’s really terrific. And we feel like one of the cool things about us is that the most of the work that we find interesting right now in television is being done in the hour-long dramatic category, shows like The Wire and The Sopranos and stuff like that. So if we can bring some of that quality into a half-hour that would be awesome. Our goal is to try and bring the standards the qualities that go into the The Sopranos and The Shield and The Wire and to try and bring that level of craftsmanship to half-hour comedy.
Nadum: Obviously Weeds could work as either a half-hour or an hour long series. Was that a tough decision coming in?
RB:No, because a lot of us had comedy training and had worked in half-hour. And people today have so little time to spare, they're working so hard, they're going out at night and they have the internet and so many things pulling at their attention, that if you can tell a great story in 25 or 30 minutes that’s totally fulfilling, I think that’s great.
And especially as people start downloading them on their iPods and stuff, we become very iPod friendly. I think we’re one of the most downloaded TV shows on iTunes.
Nadum: You were ranked #9 this morning and are steadily in the Top 10.
BR: Simply for that reason, hopefully because the show is good, but also because each episode can be devoured in a very short time and people can get what they want and move on.
Nadum: We're living in the golden era of television.
RBIt’s great. It’s really nice to be part of this Showtime resurgence. I’d like to feel that we were the beachhead that then allowed shows like Dexter and Brotherhood to then come on and be terrific but it's really wonderful to be a part of what’s emerging as Showtime’s real moment.
Nadum: You guys were The Sopranos for Showtime.
BR: And it makes us very proud.
Nadum: So what are your favorite five shows on TV today?
BR: The Wire definitely. The Shield, Flight of the Conchords... Nip/Tuck and Dexter.
Nadum: What’d you think of The Sopranos ending?
BR: You know, I thought amazing television, I don’t think there’s ever been better television but I don’t think it’s the best TV has ever done.
One of the things about The Sopranos that I found a little frustrating is that as it went on and on, David Chase’s whims got more and more mercurial and storylines that he started he just dropped. Then he’d spend endless amount of times on dream sequences. I found that he was meandering a bit too much for my taste as the show continued. I thought that first season especially, when Livia was alive there was really vigorous storytelling. But after she died and the show went on and on I thought that he was possibly getting a little bored and the storytelling was getting lax and meandering, not firing on cylinders the way it had previously.
Nadum: He very much strayed from the 'visual-novel' approach.
BR: And there was a little hubris there too. I don’t think he cared whether we the audience were satisfied or not. It was his own little play toy and he was only going to worry about amusing himself -- which is wonderful, but I stopped watching after while simply because I felt that he was just interested in following his whims and his whims got a little too lackadaisical for my taste.
Nadum: At the same time, there's that fine line of telling the story you're going to tell regardless of the audience's reaction and simply trying to amuse yourself.
BR: Yeah and you’ll find our storytelling is vigorous. It may not be your favorite story. It may not even be a story that you find as particularly compelling as another story we’ve told. But we try not to meander and we try not to sidestep and kill time and that’s what I felt he was doing kind unapologetically towards the end of the run.
Nadum: Well you guys are doing fantastic work. Before I let you go, can you give us anything on the rest of the season?
BR: What I can give you is this. It’s gonna be huge. This year’s season ender in terms of our universe, the Weeds universe, is going to be a biggie and probably make last year’s season ender look tame.
Nadum: Are we talking cliffhanger?
BR: I wouldn’t call it a cliffhanger; I would call it a momentous event.
Nadum: Are they already shot and cut?
BR: They’re already shot and cut.
Nadum: Thanks so for taking the time, it's been a pleasure and we're all looking forward to the rest of season three.
BR: Thank you.